Countdown Post - Turnabout Beginnings
Feb. 16th, 2008 03:53 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
croikBahhhhh. Without a doubt, my least favorite case.
Even the fact that this case has Edgeworth, tiny and adorable, isn't enough for me to like it. If not for the countdown I wouldn't be replaying it because there's almost no point. The entire case is just set-up with no conclusion, so once you know what happens there's no reason to play it again unless you really like the characters invovled, which...I really don't!
Except for Edgeworth, he's fab <3
Again, I don't like young Mia. As if Mia wasn't generic to begin with, you don't really see or learn anything about her in her flashback case outside the basics of her backstory: she had a relationship with Diego, he was murdered, she got revenge. These things hadn't been thought up until T&T was written so there's no indication that they affect her throughout the previous games. Even in T&T adult Mia is around a lot (or seems like it anyway) but reacts to everything so impersonally that the history you see in 3-1 and 3-4 might as well have happened to someone else.
I'm going to tempt the ire of my F-list and admit that I don't find any romance in the Diego/Mia pairing at all. There is no single point in the game in which we see them function as a couple. Even in 3-4, the only time in which we get to see them interact with each other, there's barely any indication of attraction on Mia's side. Diego spends the entire time hitting on her (downright demeaning her, really, with all the "kitten in the big scary lion's den" talk) and makes some kind of sexist remark every other second, but Mia barely reacts. She puts up with being called kitten the entire time without being insulted, or conversely she doesn't seem flattered by his attention, either. Whenever he says something along the lines of "A man would never..." she replies "A woman would never, either!" but then immediately drops it. I know he's her superior, and she's focused on the case, but there are tons of ways they could have demonstrated what kind of couple Diego/Mia would be without compromising the seriousness of the case.
What kind of couple were they, anyway? All we know from 3-4 is that Diego toys constantly and she doesn't react. Are we supposed to assume that Mia developed an attraction to him that we never see? That Diego ever stopped treating her like a little kitty? What is so romantic about a sexist jerk paired with a woman who's indifferent to him?
It's not like PW can't express a romantic coupling in a short amount of time. Within the first conversations between Ron and Desiree it's pretty obvious what kind of relationship they have. Gumshoe and Maggey are the same way. But when we actually get to play from Mia's point of view...can't we at least get to see what she really thinks of Diego, other than him being "a good lawyer"? I mean, sure, maybe she likes being "kitten." I wouldn't stand for it, but maybe Mia doesn't mind. Can't we at least then hear if she thinks Diego is hot? If she has a deep admiration for his tenacity? Maybe she's been crushing on him since she started working for Grossberg--wouldn't that make up for them having little chemistry in this case, if we were simply told it was already established? Why make it that she fell in love with him *after* 3-4 when we don't get to see that?
I just don't like that the entirety of Godot's character hinges on the fact that he was in love with Mia, but we never get to see Godot acting like he's in love with Mia. We see him treat her like a teenaged bimbo in open court. We see her not show any attraction to him. But a few years later they're both risking their badges, their lives, and the lives of other people out of some concept love that we can only speculate about. Every art of Diego/Mia I've seen of them is loving and romantic and adorable, but from what we know of canon, Diego has always been sexist, and Mia goes from not caring, to risking her career to avenge him, to not caring again. Even when she and Godot are reunited again in court in 3-5, she expresses no remorse or affection. Where is this image of them as a loving, devoted couple coming from?
"Godot went to extreme lengths for Mia, therefore, he must have loved her a lot" is what a lot of people say. But everything Godot did "for" Mia were things she never would have condoned if she had been there to stop him. Becomming a prosecutor and using his cases as a means of personal revenge? Consciously and willingly allowing Maya, Pearl, Iris, Bikini, Misty and even Phoenix to walk into a dangerous trap, all so that he can redeem himself for a mistake that no one blamed him for in the first place? Every action Godot takes confirms his selfishness. It's all for his own piece of mind, not for Mia's--if he had understood a single thing about Mia, he would have known she would never stand for him manipulating the law process the way he does, let alone that she would want him to put Maya in mortal danger. How is the fact that Godot doesn't understand a single thing about Mia's morals any indication that he truly loved her?
I just don't buy it B:
And then...then there's Terry. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't feel one lick of sympathy for Terry. Of course, he didn't deserve to die, but...come on. A 20 year old man in a position of power over a 14 year old girl (he was her tutor), and I'm supposed to feel bad for him that he got taken advantage of? He was talked into commiting a felony by a minor and went through with it. Even if Dahlia hadn't jumped the bridge, he still would have been put away for theft and statutory rape!
I mean, if you want to say he was flat out mentally challenged...yeah, that's one thing. But if he was mentally handicapped you'd think that would work in his defense. It's never brought up, so are we just supposed to assume he's dumb...? I don't remember him being quite so "caveman" in the Japanese, but then, it's been a long time, since I don't replay this case unless I have to.
I'm not saying he got what he deserved - of course not. It was wrong of Dahlia and Valerie to use him, and he didn't deserve to die. But I simply can't work up any sympathy for a 20 year old guy who "falls in love" with a minor, especially a young-looking, flat chested loli like Dahlia. That's some pedo going on right there.
Bahhhhhhhhh okay that's a whole lot of complaining. Maybe it's because I'm picky about romance, and T&T is nothing *but* romances slapped together, but its details like these that make me not appreciate this game as much as the other two. I love Ron and Desiree, because they're presented as a loving couple - they have their problems, but there is clear and honest affection there. But Viola falling for Tigre, Terry for Dahlia, Diego and Mia... I can't help but feel they're based in selfishness, and so when the game tries to play on my sympathy for one-sided love, it just misses entirely.
I'd say I was just a cynic, but...I do have a soft spot for sap! I do!
Anyway, I'll try to end on a positive note and say that I love teeny Edgey <3333
Even the fact that this case has Edgeworth, tiny and adorable, isn't enough for me to like it. If not for the countdown I wouldn't be replaying it because there's almost no point. The entire case is just set-up with no conclusion, so once you know what happens there's no reason to play it again unless you really like the characters invovled, which...I really don't!
Except for Edgeworth, he's fab <3
Again, I don't like young Mia. As if Mia wasn't generic to begin with, you don't really see or learn anything about her in her flashback case outside the basics of her backstory: she had a relationship with Diego, he was murdered, she got revenge. These things hadn't been thought up until T&T was written so there's no indication that they affect her throughout the previous games. Even in T&T adult Mia is around a lot (or seems like it anyway) but reacts to everything so impersonally that the history you see in 3-1 and 3-4 might as well have happened to someone else.
I'm going to tempt the ire of my F-list and admit that I don't find any romance in the Diego/Mia pairing at all. There is no single point in the game in which we see them function as a couple. Even in 3-4, the only time in which we get to see them interact with each other, there's barely any indication of attraction on Mia's side. Diego spends the entire time hitting on her (downright demeaning her, really, with all the "kitten in the big scary lion's den" talk) and makes some kind of sexist remark every other second, but Mia barely reacts. She puts up with being called kitten the entire time without being insulted, or conversely she doesn't seem flattered by his attention, either. Whenever he says something along the lines of "A man would never..." she replies "A woman would never, either!" but then immediately drops it. I know he's her superior, and she's focused on the case, but there are tons of ways they could have demonstrated what kind of couple Diego/Mia would be without compromising the seriousness of the case.
What kind of couple were they, anyway? All we know from 3-4 is that Diego toys constantly and she doesn't react. Are we supposed to assume that Mia developed an attraction to him that we never see? That Diego ever stopped treating her like a little kitty? What is so romantic about a sexist jerk paired with a woman who's indifferent to him?
It's not like PW can't express a romantic coupling in a short amount of time. Within the first conversations between Ron and Desiree it's pretty obvious what kind of relationship they have. Gumshoe and Maggey are the same way. But when we actually get to play from Mia's point of view...can't we at least get to see what she really thinks of Diego, other than him being "a good lawyer"? I mean, sure, maybe she likes being "kitten." I wouldn't stand for it, but maybe Mia doesn't mind. Can't we at least then hear if she thinks Diego is hot? If she has a deep admiration for his tenacity? Maybe she's been crushing on him since she started working for Grossberg--wouldn't that make up for them having little chemistry in this case, if we were simply told it was already established? Why make it that she fell in love with him *after* 3-4 when we don't get to see that?
I just don't like that the entirety of Godot's character hinges on the fact that he was in love with Mia, but we never get to see Godot acting like he's in love with Mia. We see him treat her like a teenaged bimbo in open court. We see her not show any attraction to him. But a few years later they're both risking their badges, their lives, and the lives of other people out of some concept love that we can only speculate about. Every art of Diego/Mia I've seen of them is loving and romantic and adorable, but from what we know of canon, Diego has always been sexist, and Mia goes from not caring, to risking her career to avenge him, to not caring again. Even when she and Godot are reunited again in court in 3-5, she expresses no remorse or affection. Where is this image of them as a loving, devoted couple coming from?
"Godot went to extreme lengths for Mia, therefore, he must have loved her a lot" is what a lot of people say. But everything Godot did "for" Mia were things she never would have condoned if she had been there to stop him. Becomming a prosecutor and using his cases as a means of personal revenge? Consciously and willingly allowing Maya, Pearl, Iris, Bikini, Misty and even Phoenix to walk into a dangerous trap, all so that he can redeem himself for a mistake that no one blamed him for in the first place? Every action Godot takes confirms his selfishness. It's all for his own piece of mind, not for Mia's--if he had understood a single thing about Mia, he would have known she would never stand for him manipulating the law process the way he does, let alone that she would want him to put Maya in mortal danger. How is the fact that Godot doesn't understand a single thing about Mia's morals any indication that he truly loved her?
I just don't buy it B:
And then...then there's Terry. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't feel one lick of sympathy for Terry. Of course, he didn't deserve to die, but...come on. A 20 year old man in a position of power over a 14 year old girl (he was her tutor), and I'm supposed to feel bad for him that he got taken advantage of? He was talked into commiting a felony by a minor and went through with it. Even if Dahlia hadn't jumped the bridge, he still would have been put away for theft and statutory rape!
I mean, if you want to say he was flat out mentally challenged...yeah, that's one thing. But if he was mentally handicapped you'd think that would work in his defense. It's never brought up, so are we just supposed to assume he's dumb...? I don't remember him being quite so "caveman" in the Japanese, but then, it's been a long time, since I don't replay this case unless I have to.
I'm not saying he got what he deserved - of course not. It was wrong of Dahlia and Valerie to use him, and he didn't deserve to die. But I simply can't work up any sympathy for a 20 year old guy who "falls in love" with a minor, especially a young-looking, flat chested loli like Dahlia. That's some pedo going on right there.
Bahhhhhhhhh okay that's a whole lot of complaining. Maybe it's because I'm picky about romance, and T&T is nothing *but* romances slapped together, but its details like these that make me not appreciate this game as much as the other two. I love Ron and Desiree, because they're presented as a loving couple - they have their problems, but there is clear and honest affection there. But Viola falling for Tigre, Terry for Dahlia, Diego and Mia... I can't help but feel they're based in selfishness, and so when the game tries to play on my sympathy for one-sided love, it just misses entirely.
I'd say I was just a cynic, but...I do have a soft spot for sap! I do!
Anyway, I'll try to end on a positive note and say that I love teeny Edgey <3333
